The Jed Report: McCain's Lame October Surprise: Joe, The Right-Wing Loon
jupitor
· 1 year ago
minik you gave me my laugh for the day, Yah ya betcha ya did! Your facts are all screwed up, kin of like mccains 5,000 per person out of our own pockets and taxes he'll give us to purchas health care! My god what a laugh a minute he is for sure. Yeh I'm a republican and was hopeing for Mit to make it. But, listened to mccain , as the old man use to be a pistol. Didn't think pure anger was hisproblem till now. The poor old man rolled his eyes, raised his eye brows, brought on the wide eye stare and twittered around like a out of control to year old, during the debate. I wanted to tie him down and tell him to stop makeing face's so I could cocentrate on what was being said! He did not look presidentiall, or sound presidential, and I would have hated a world leader from nother country to have to sit through all the rediculouse face's mccain made at Obama. It was disrespectful,childish and unwarrented. If I didn' find enough wrong with mccain, Yeh there is Sarah Palins Betcha talk that is way beyond childish to the growen up person with any common sense, and you guys need to put your bulge back in your pants and stop thinking with the wrong you know what when it comes to palin.
LFC
· 1 year ago
Doug, on the flip side, if what you started saying something that you thought was important, but was actually either false or stupid, how would you expect me to react?
BH
· 1 year ago
Don't forget the state income taxes that he failed to pay, as reported by the Politico:
Oh, and he hates Social Security, just like John McCain! This is hilarious.
skoal
· 1 year ago
Joe will get a bigger tax cut under Obama and get a better health plan. He is worried because some day he might be rich and if he gets rich he wants to keep his hypothetical taxes low. Because other wise it will not be worth it to become rich so he won't even try.
What a looser.
SeattleAJ
· 1 year ago
This pic of McCain reminds me an awful lot of Bill The Cat. Ack! (if you're old enough to remember Bloom County. Bill the Cat actually ran for President a couple of times with his reluctant VP pick Opus)
Doug, its hard to change someones mind if that mind is already made up. It is also disingenuous to represent him as an undecided if he isn't
That's rich calling Obama arrogant. McCain did nothing but seethe, roll his eyes, and laugh off womens health. Talk about arrogant "who needs the woman vote, fuck `em".
Facts and McCain do not agree. His lies and distortions about Obama's tax plan have already been debunked by a number of sources. Plus, Joe will get tax credits for new hires, plus credits for big-pool health insurance participation.
The better the economy, the more money people have, the more people will be able to afford Joe's services. Opening his business under a McCain/Bush admin will insure failure.
pspnsu
· 1 year ago
Even though we can debate if Joe's taxes would go up or not. Lets look at exactly at how much they would go up if Joe actually paid himself $300k a year.
Pay Tax % Amount paid in taxes Weekly income
$300k 36% $108k $3692.30
$300k 39% $117k $3519.23
Joe would be taking home $173.07 less each week. For most Americans that is a lot of money but I think Joe would be alright and able to live on his $3519 a week income.
Skip
· 1 year ago
Wrong, its $28.80 additional per week. Assuming a net adjusted income of $300,000 per year the additional 3% (39% - 36%) is applied to the last $50,000 over $250,000. So 3% X $50,000 = $1,500.
ezpz
· 1 year ago
A serious question here - does earning $250,000 a year qualify you as a joe sixpack or in this case joe the plumber?
I heard it reported that the average plumber makes $45,000 a year.
They're trying to pull a fast one on us ---for a change.
CLF
· 1 year ago
Looks like Joe the Dumber, I mean Joe the Plumber isn't aware of the difference between the value of a business (this very conveniently priced $250K venture) and the income derived from such a business. Quick! somebody find Ira the Accountant!
Akio
· 1 year ago
Well, as it turns out, it just so happens that "Joe the Plumber" is a close relative to Charles Keating of "The Keating Five". Oops.
That would be golden. This is where the mainstream press is supposed to get involved and get some answers, as the average "Joe" could never research matters like this. Don't hold your breath, though.
Could be a dead end story. But if it is true...........
Genevieve
· 1 year ago
Just called my Mom back home, and she told me that someone from Obama's campaign in Colorado called her last night after the debate -- and she's going right now to their office to begin working the phones. :)
maria ballantyne
· 1 year ago
Paging Joe The Skinhead. And thanks, Akio, for bringing up the ties to Charles Keating. Vote for Jamakane? No, thanks. Worst pres. campaign ever.
Chris
· 1 year ago
Joe the RepubliCON :)
Buddy
· 1 year ago
He also says Social Security is a joke and he hates it.
Genevieve
· 1 year ago
The plumber is a distraction, nothing more. We can't let up on McCain -- keep hammering away about the economy.
JS
· 1 year ago
This smells a bit fishy to me, could this be a McCain plant?
msskwesq
· 1 year ago
That is exactly what he was, a plant. I live in Iowa and have been attending rallies for over 15 years and before that worked in DC for over 12. I also have a degree in Poli Sci and a JD. I KNOW for certain that most people who ask questions at campaign events, especially at the Republican rallies, are hand pick plants. The moment I saw that video with Joe and Obama, I knew he was a plant. At this stage of the game, the Repubs will stoop to any level, even send a douch like Joe the Plumber to ambush Obama.
The Natural Law Party is not "right wing". It was founded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi of the Transcendantal Meditation program. I think this party is defunct but their platform was progressive. The fact that Joe was registered with them is a head scratcher, since most of the Natural Law party people are meditators. George Harrison was a big supporter. Joe does not fit the demagraphic. I think he just liked the name, natural law ruling the land, not government
fenice888
· 1 year ago
Thanks middlegirl. I was about to post the same, then decided to see if anyone else had. And yes, it IS a head-scratcher. Actually, the Natural Law Party was founded by Dr. John Hagelin, an internationally recognized quantum physicist and public policy expert,, who also happens to be closely allied with, yes, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. It is/was more the party of the "new consciousness" community. It is now defunct, and is forwarding to this site (hardly right-wing!): http://www.uspeacegovernment.org/ Yes indeedy.... a head-scratcher. I think your suppositions may be correct.
hmmm
· 1 year ago
FIX is pushing "spread the wealth". They still list him as undecided according to the clip I saw about half hour ago.
Akio
· 1 year ago
Oh, I'm sorry, that story's already been posted.
LFC
· 1 year ago
I have a question for ya'll about McCain's performance at last night's debate. Is it just me, or did it sound like he's been hanging out way too much with Sarah Palin? I had to keep stopping my TiVo, backing up, and trying to put together what he was trying to say. Several times he seemed to start a pre-canned talking point, but cut himself off without finishing. Non-sentences tumbled out of his mouth a few more times. There were a number of completely ham-fisted segues to completely unrelated topics.
Obama, on the other hand, seemed to start his point, move through it, and finish. He would then pick up the next point.
So is it me, or did others notice that McCain was, at times, all over the place?
lorisc
· 1 year ago
LFC, I thought the same thing. He was all over the place. I guess that's what happens when you are really pissed and can't think straight.
minik
· 1 year ago
Quote:
"And, on the other topic of eye rolls, Obama's condescending laughs at some of McCain's totally correct comments were disgusting. What a complete arrogant ahole."
My take away from the laughs were that they were Obama's way of dealing with the uncontrolled hostility that John was tossing at him.
His laugh basically says "Man, i can't believe that this guy is totally incapable of simply maturely debating with me without having a conniption fit."
He was laughing at McCains inability to control his anger in such an inappropriate situation.
ezpz
· 1 year ago
Doug -- I'll answer your 'doctor' question... I would pick the one with a few years of experience and a steady hand who would use the scalpel and not the hatchet.
I would NOT want a surgeon with more experience but a shaky hand, a quick temper, and someone who mocks the "health" of a woman.
(Edit to add - That's assuming I had health insurance that would cover the surgery.)
And maybe you can answer this question, please?
Does someone earning a quarter of a million dollars represent the average working middle class voter? You know the joe six pack or joe the plumber, who, incidentally, doesn't even have a plumber's license.
LFC
· 1 year ago
...and you guys need to put your bulge back in your pants and stop thinking with the wrong you know what when it comes to palin.
Palin ain't that hot to start with And when she speaks, the stupid just hurts so badly that the small amount of physical attractiveness is overwhelmed.
jupitor
· 1 year ago
Oh ya, about that Joe the plumber! turns out he's related to keating, and he didn't pay his taxes and there is something strange when a man says he's been a plumber for 20 years when hes only 35 years old. also I doubt if he was in the military as he claims, as sense hes been a plumber for 20 years and would have to start at age 15 years, when did he manage the military, unless he was a military plumber. Otherwise guys, let me introduce you to a republican plant! Joke is on you guys who supports mccain, who just threw a nasty little fraudlent plant in your mist, and got caught doing it. Some info. on Dailykos, huffington, and one blogger says cnn, but I haven't found no info there as of yet! Happy days are here again with the republicans, and I'm ashamed to say I was one for so long.
hmmm
· 1 year ago
Welcome to earth Jupitor!
Doug
· 1 year ago
ezpz-- I guess it would be a good idea then for me to change professions; I could really make a killing in doing open heart surgery on people like you!
Not sure what you mean about someone making $250K as being middle class, but yes I think the bulk of small businesses have greater income than that, and so would definitely be hurt by Obama's increased taxes.
ezpz
· 1 year ago
Um, Doug? That experience thing didn't work out too well for Hillary, did it?
And as far as you becoming a surgeon, I think you'd have to graduate a tad higher than 5th from the bottom of 900.
And about you making a "killing in doing open heart surgery" -- that's EXACTLY why I wouldn't pick the 'experienced' hot tempered not very bright one, and WOULD take my chances on the one who knows his stuff, graduated on top with honors and again, with the steady hand that knows the difference between a scalpel and a hatchet.
I can see why you would support McCain. You make light of a very serious profession such as a surgeon as well as the office of the presidency. Experience is overrated if it's bad experience.
brantl
· 1 year ago
Factually, you're wrong. The bulk of small businesses make less that $250,000 dollars. This has previously been established, McCain doesn't even dispute this.
Doug
· 1 year ago
lorisc-- Well, truth is I'm completely frustrated by people like you who don't get the facts, and then purport to know them in defense of whom you've already decided is the right candidate. So to your last comment: Bring on the facts here, if you can! Personally, I don't think you can, because of what I've stated above. Well, I never said you graduated from a liberal school, but I do agree with the other part.
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug, then we are in the same boat. I'm completely frustrated by people like you who don't get the facts, and then purport to know them in defense of whom you've already decided is the right candidate.
Doug, why don't you bring on the facts. I haven't seen anything but name calling here. You've said nothing that makes me think you know much about why you support McCain. If it's the experience argument then explain how you can excuse McCain for choosing a completely inexperienced running mate. Don't give me the executive experience argument. It's Alaska a state of 700,000 and Wasilla is a town smaller than the very little town I live in. Don't tell me that she has close foreign relations with Russia. I've seen her try to answer the questions. She can't. She knows Alaska politics but has never engaged in learning much about the rest of the country (at least not until she began cramming in late August).
As far as why I would never vote for McCain. The Republican Party's platform and the platform John McCain is running on doesn't coincide with anything I believe in.
BTW, tell me if you are the master of all knowlege did you support the war in Iraq? Did you believe that Saddam was tied to al Queda? Did you believe there were WMD's? Just wondering. Somehow I think you supported this war from the very beginning instead of listening to the many voices of opposition. They were out there and a lot of people heard them and made the right judgment.
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug if I had to choose a surgeon I wouldn't choose the old guy who can't control his anger and who is clinging to same techniques he learned while in med school 40 years ago. The one with the completely inexperienced med student waiting to take over. You know, the one who hasn't even learned anatomy and went to five med schools in six years. That wouldn't be my choice which is why I have already voted for Obama/Biden.
Doug
· 1 year ago
lorisc-- As I've already said then, I had better get myself into an internet med school ASAP. I can then handle your next surgery.....
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug, Are you trying to become the next Sarah Palin? Because internet med school to prepare for surgery is kind of like going to five schools in six years to become a journalist. I look at McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden as teams. McCain cheapened the experience argument when he chose Palin who is clueless and isn't at all prepared to be VP much less President. So, get over the experience argument. Obama has had a 20 month interview with the American people and he has shown that he knows what he is talking about. What exactly do we know about Palin who could be president should something happen to McCain? She violated her state's ethics laws (I've had about enough of secrecy, obstructionism, to last me a lifetime. Palin makes a complete fool of herself during interviews so she blames it on the media and stops giving them
As long as you are using your interview for a job analogy, can you imagine how far someone would get if during an interview they told the HR Dept. that they wouldn't be answering their questions? They would be talking about what they wanted to since it was their interview. I don't think they'd be asked back for a second interviewThat's what happened during the debate. Palin got her talking points out, but rarely answered the questions.
hmmm
· 1 year ago
Doug, Have you ever voted for President Bush?
Terre
· 1 year ago
Hey Jed, Did you see this website? Not sure how accurate all the information is, but there sure is a lot of it. Nothing about the military though.
Not sure what you mean about someone making $250K as being middle class, but yes I think the bulk of small businesses have greater income than that, and so would definitely be hurt by Obama's increased taxes.
Doug, that's $250K in profits, not income (i.e. revenue). Capital expenditures used to expand the business would be counted as expenses against income, thus reducing profits. Salaries, benefits, rent, office supplies, etc. also count as expenses. So you could easily have a business with $20 million in income, but $100K in profits.
As Obama said, and McCain has not refuted, 98% of small business have profits of less than $250K per year.
LFC
· 1 year ago
Doug said... On experience, you of all people should know that experience is 80% of what you look for in an Engineer. Glad instead to hear that you would hire someone with a couple of years to run your department.
I'm a software engineer, and I see several problems with the above statements.
First, in engineering, it's not simply amount of experience but rather it's the right type of experience. Think of the infamous baggage handling system fiasco at Stapleton Airport. The designer of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge probably had oodles of experience, but a bridge that crashed in a matter of months due to poor design. That's not the kind of experience most people would look for in a new hire. Think McCain on a number of foreign policy and deregulatory issues. Lincoln Savings crashed. Iraq crashed. Afghanistan crashed. The derivatives market crashed. The real estate market crashed. His "experience" has turned out to be pretty bad.
Second, you just conflated being an experienced engineer with being able to run a department. That tells me you know absolutely nothing about management. My current boss was a software engineer for a short period of time. He was OK at it. He moved to management early and was fantastic from the get-go because he was organized, detail oriented, could prioritize, could think ahead, and thought about the ramifications of his decisions. Obama has these same qualities. McCain does not. And Palin, who supposedly has "executive experience" definitely does not have these traits.
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug said:
And wow, where did you get the idea that the war is not winnable? Have you been watching the news at all, or has Obama blinded you from world affairs? Last I heard there is an agreement about to be signed to pull us out in victory by 2011:
Well, your arguments are running thin Ron. Good thing I am at least bringing some new and accurate info to your incredibly narrow minded readership.
One last thing to Doug and then I am moving on. It's not really worth the time to say much more since he believes somehow he knows the facts, but her I go. The US/Iraqi Withdrawl Plan mirrors Obama's plan.
Joe the Jokester hasn't a clue about the business world. Say it ain't so, Joe! You just don't decide to buy a business and go out an buy it! And you pay your dues when you first own a business. If you don't have the cash upfront to buy the business, you will have to make a loan payment. You have to pay your rent, utilities, insurance, your employees, your workman's comp, social security, unemployment..and if you are super successful, you may bring in to the business a total of 250K gross, and if you are able to make 250K as your salary, you are certainly quite the business person. You need to find a good tax accountant, like most people in business, so you can hide some of your profits and not be put into the higher tax bracket. But it seems as if you are not interested in paying taxes, so I guess you will end up in federal prison for tax evasion and wish you had voted for Obama.
Doug
· 1 year ago
lorisc-- Well, keep on telling yourself these things; maybe it will actually sink in, and you'll begin to believe them. By your arguments, sounds like YOU should be the next President. Well, that's the whole point. If you have a slick message and confident presentation, you can fool alot of people; you don't need experience. Obama does not fool me.
I think you missed something a bit blatant in your statement here:
“Well, my husband is also an engineer and you know what, the project managers and project directors who handle 100 million projects aren't the people in their fifties and sixties who have been with the company for 25 years. They are often in their late 30's and early 40's. They are the brightest. So, I guess that would be the difference between where you work and the where my husband works (which, by the way, is one of the largest construction/engineering firms in the world).”
No lori, I have over 30 years of experience in Engineering design (I have worked at more than 30 of the most respected companies in my profession over the years), and I can count on one hand how many times someone with 2 years of experience was promoted over someone with 25 years, regardless of age. Actually, I can think of a couple those that worked out badly. Age is not the issue here. It is just simply a fact that in aggregate, someone with more experience in their particular profession will have a far greater ability to resolve problems and provide leadership when it is needed most. Arguing that fact is laughable.
So are you trying to become the next Barack Obama? Sounds like it…
Well hey, don't worry about gaining any experience before you run for office, you're ready to go under your current philosophy!
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug, Obama doesn't have two years of experience and you know it. It sounds more like you are the one who thinks you could be president or a surgeon since you have 30 years of experience. Have you ever been CEO of any of these companies?
If you are going to go back to the experience issue how come you won't address Sarah Palin's complete lack of experience. You start talking about two years of experience and that is exactly what she has two years (unless you are counting six years as mayor of tiny Wasilla which she left $23 million in debt. Why do you keep avoiding Palin? If McCain is elected she could be president at any moment. She hasn't done a press release. She hasn't done the Sunday morning talk shows. She has done three interviews and blew two of them.
This is why people like you make me crazy. You believe you are thinking rationally and logically when you talk about experience, but you won't take that same argument and look at McCain's running mate. You can't have it both ways, Doug. You can't talk about Obama's experience (who has answered questions in close to 30 debates, done countless interviews, press releases, etc) and disqualify his years in the state senate at the same time you refuse to talk about Palin's experience. If you are going after Obama's experience then defend Palin's experience. You won't because you can't.
Doug
· 1 year ago
lorisc-- What, you can't answer my last post?? Oh well, glad to see that you think Obama had anything to do with what is now about to happen in Iraq. Let's see, he voted the whole thing down, and then you take credit for it's success!! Politics at it's best!!
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug, I am pretty sure you voted for Bush twice and are probably still a part of the 25% of the people who support him. What Obama did was exercise the judgment early on and speak out against a war that should never have been fought. He saw through the Bush/Cheney lies. McCain didn't. He couldn't wait to get to Iraq. Just a few months after 9-1-1 he was "onto Baghdad". He was wrong then, and you like McCain seem to think this war started in 2007 rather than 2003. Somehow you and McCain have made the Surge the pivotal decision in this war. The pivotal decision was the decision to go there in the first place. This was a pre-emptive war where there was no threat to us.
How do you explain that the withdrawl plan mirrors the Obama's plan? It includes timetables and an end date of 2011. Isn't McCain against that? Wouldn't that be telling our enemies when we are leaving? Isn't that his argument against timetables?
Doug
· 1 year ago
Ron/LFC-- Wow, I would like to see the companies you work for. So I guess by your logic, you are saying that you’re not really voting for Obama himself, because he really does not have the experience to make important decisions, rather you expect the experts on his cabinet to make them entirely? As I’ve said above, I’ve seen MANY Engineering departments and managers over the years, and not once did I see a manager who had little or no experience lead a team with competent guidance. Just curious, how long have each of you been Engineers? What do you think if your boss pulled in a guy with a couple years experience to replace you?
Doug
· 1 year ago
lorisc-- You didn’t read my statement above, because you’re too busy trying to defend yourself:
“On experience, you of all people should know that experience is 80% of what you look for in an Engineer. Glad instead to hear that you would hire someone with a couple of years to run your department. What was the company you said you're working for, and sitting here in the middle of the day and blogging? And yes, I agree that Palin is not the most experienced VP candidate here, that is the big negative of her for me.”
I did address Palin; I do not really think she has enough experience to be VP. But I believe much more strongly that Obama TRULY does not have the experience to be President. In fact, I think it is totally arguable that Palin is far more experienced in making executive decisions than Obama, and this has been proven by their experience and records.
Anything else you can't support?
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug, What is the job of a VP? To break a tie in the Senate and to step up to become president if something happens to the president. So if Palin doesn't have enough experience to VP she doesn't have enough experience to be President. You might think it is totally arguable that Palin is far more experienced in making executive decision than Obama, but if that is your barometer then she should be on the top of the ticket since McCain has no executive experience either. Palin's record, PLEASE! That executive experience in Waslilla left a town of 7000 which had no debt with a debt of $23 million. She has been the govenor of a very small state for two years. Her own legislature just found her guilty of an ethics violation. That's not a record I would be that proud of.
CMcC
· 1 year ago
According to TPM, he is totally against Social Security. In other words, he wants not just the partial privatization that Bush and McSame have talked about; he wants total privatization. TPM has video.
Someone should ask McCain if he now favors the complete elimination of Social Security. There are a lot of old folks in Florida who need to know.
gbear
· 1 year ago
This from the NYT story about Joe:
Mr. Wurzelbacher is registered to vote in Lucas County under the name Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher.
“We have his named spelled W-O, instead of W-U,” Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said in a telephone interview. “Handwriting is sometimes hard to read. He has never corrected it in his registration card.”
Here's a flip question: With all the new voter fraud regulations in Ohio, isn't it likely that the mis-spelling of his name and the different first name would cause him to be flagged and forced to cast a provisional vote until he could prove himself innocent of trying to commit voter fraud?
cheeriogirl
· 1 year ago
I am from Ohio and yes Joe would be disqualified under the latest ruling of our courts due to the Republican lawsuit. I think it is disgusting to invalidate a voter's right in this way. If the ruling stands, I wonder if Joe will still be so enamored of his party?
Ron
· 1 year ago
Doug,
30 years and 30 different companies you must be one hell of an engineer. Two things I look for when hiring, stability and avoid contract engineers you are either missing the first or are the second.
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Ron, I totally missed the 30 years experience at 30 different companies. Good catch.
ezpz
· 1 year ago
Maybe Doug can answer this question about "victory" in Iraq...
Who exactly are the enemies in this 'war' besides those that we ourselves created by illegally invading a sovereign nation, shocking and awing tens of millions of innocent civilians and causing the death and displacement of countless innocent civilians, destroying whatever infrastructure they might have had - all under the guise of WMD and liberating them?
Please define the enemy. Then maybe we can talk about *victory".
LFC
· 1 year ago
So I guess by your logic, you are saying that you’re not really voting for Obama himself, because he really does not have the experience to make important decisions, rather you expect the experts on his cabinet to make them entirely?
No, I'm voting for Obama because he has shown intelligence and thoughtfulness in dealing with a wider variety of topics than any one individual could have in-depth experience with. Do you think the President knows more about he military than the generals, more about the economy than economists, more about drugs than the head of the FDA, more about foreign policy than the entire set of U.S. ambassadors, more about space than NASA, and and and and? If so, you're an idiot.
As I’ve said above, I’ve seen MANY Engineering departments and managers over the years, and not once did I see a manager who had little or no experience lead a team with competent guidance.
You're stuck at departmental level. I have worked for several successful companies started by people who don't have decades of experience. My current company was started by somebody who had never been a CEO has never written a line of code, yet by hiring the right people and having other skills (sales and market place analysis), he has created a successful company that is in the black. That's the mark of a successful CEO.
Just curious, how long have each of you been Engineers?
30 years. I landed my first programming job at age 17.
What do you think if your boss pulled in a guy with a couple years experience to replace you?
I don't understand the premise. I'm not a CEO. If my CEO was replaced by a guy who was a really good programmer with 30 years experience, but who had never managed anything above a team or small department, I'd start looking for another job before the company crashed and burned.
My boss is younger than me and he had less experience in both time and breadth than I did, but he is a better manager than I could ever be. I've seen very sharp and experienced engineers attempt to move into the management track and fail miserably. You conflate management skills with engineering skills. We're not voting for an engineer, or a team leader. We're voting for a CEO.
And to be blunt, McCain is not a skilled engineer, not a skilled manager, and sure as hell isn't qualified to be CEO.
Doug
· 1 year ago
lorisc-- Wow, nice re-direct. Can't answer/reply to your misstatement of me supporting Palin?
Yes, I understand the job of VP. But how in the world does Obama know what the h**l to do as President? I think you can see what I’m saying here is that the McCain/Palin team is far more experienced and capable in total than Obama/Biden, plain and simple. It’s almost impossible to argure that (although I’m sure you’ll try in some completely incorrect way, based on false information).
On your other comment:
“How do you explain that the withdrawl plan mirrors the Obama's plan? It includes timetables and an end date of 2011. Isn't McCain against that? Wouldn't that be telling our enemies when we are leaving? Isn't that his argument against timetables?”
Everyone who has followed this war knows that we could not establish a time of leaving, until the agreement to support that withdrawal was in place. Guess what? If you read the ariticle I sent, you would know that we now have an agreement about to be signed! Hmm, funny how that works.
Any other re-directs you want to throw out there?
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug, It's not a redirect. I like rational and logical thinking and you don't have any. You question Obama's experience but somehow think Palin is fine (VP to a 72 year old four time cancer survivor who is the oldest pres nominee ever). So, the experience of McCain's VP does matter. Doug were you impressed with Palin's ability to show the extent of her knowledge when interviewed by Gibson and Couric? If you were, you weren't paying attention. Much of the country and the world was just plain alarmed by her responses and lack of knowledge. In fact, it probably contributed to McCain's crash in the polls.
How is my information incorrect and your correct? Just wondering. It's not as if you back it up with anything but your own opinion. Like I said I don't find you to be all that logical or rational. Just someone with an opinion who thinks he's right.
Have you ever been to Obama's website? Maybe you could start there to find out exactly wehre he stands on the issues. Maybe then you'll be a little more comfortable with what he will do as president. Try educating yourself. I am so sick of the line that we just don't know what Obama is about. If you don't know you haven't been listening. But, it's looking highly probably that we will be finding out soon. President Obama is looking pretty likely.
BTW, the link to your Yahoo article has expired. So, it wasn't possible to read it. Perhaps you'd like to find another article from another respected news source (no Fox News please). Did you read the article I sent you? Probably not. You never did answer me about whether you think the war started in 2007 or 2003. You are all about the surge but not about the bad judgment and lies that got us in the war to begin with. A war McCain couldn't wait to fight. Surge. Surge. Surge. It's the GOP mantra along with Drill Baby Drill.
Well, it's time to go. I want to make a donation before I go to a Get Out the Vote meeting.
Doug
· 1 year ago
Ron/LFC-- Looks like you didn’t learn much in your 30 years of experience. I think that I have, and I’ve definitely learned what type of management works, and what doesn’t. How about you? Yes, I am a consultant. Most of the time I clean up the totally screwed up designs left by incompetent full timers. And in terms of companies not wanting me because I’m a consultant, this is pretty much incorrect, as I have been offered full time jobs at appx 75% of the companies I’ve worked for.
LFC:
“You're stuck at departmental level. I have worked for several successful companies started by people who don't have decades of experience. My current company was started by somebody who had never been a CEO has never written a line of code, yet by hiring the right people and having other skills (sales and market place analysis), he has created a successful company that is in the black. That's the mark of a successful CEO.”
No, I’m not. I’ve been in at the beginning of no less than 5 startup companies, including one of my own. I know what it takes to make a successful company. So again, I am saying that you are implying that you have complete trust in Obama’s cabinet, by the example you’ve just outlined. Do you know who they are, and have you vetted them out?
Well, looks like if people like you have their way, we’ll all need to find our local unemployment office ASAP.
cheeriogirl
· 1 year ago
I need to rant.
This is for you Doug,
I want a president who is intelligent, sane, and a man of good character. I want someone who listens well, to not just the words spoken, but the ideas behind those words. Someone who can think clearly in both a conversation, and a crisis. I want someone who can keep their "cool" in negotiations with others in the US Government, as well as those in foreign governments.
These character traits are all based upon mutual respect of others, and are learned as part of your upbringing. These qualities have nothing to do with job experience.
Last night during the debate, I saw an angry, reactive, aggressive presidential candidate. Senator McCain did not listen, continually interupted, repeatedly lied about his Obama, and seemed to particularly enjoy talking down to his peer.
He also made faces throughout the debate, rollled his eyes, and huffed and puffed throughout some of Senator Obama's answers. This type of behaviour reminded me of my teens when visibly annoyed, and was in no way presidential.
You can and apparently will continue to argue for McCain's 26 years of experience. You see that as a plus, I see this as a huge negative, as he has been a member of the Washington establishment, that he apparently despises, for over 2 decades. Yet he tells us that change will be coming to Washington, once he is elected.
I ask you Doug, WHY HASN'T he changed Washington before now?
He has been there 26 years and it has taken him this long to realize that there are problems?
Do you have any evidence of any bills he has authored in the last year or two that he is working on currently? Or are we supposed to wait until we elect him to see if he has any actual workable ideas that his fellow congressmen and women will support?
I simply see no evidence Doug. Senator McCain did not even vote AT ALL between April and the vote on the bailout.
And when was it that he came to the realization that Washington is run by the good old boys, greed and lobbyists?
He wants me to believe that he will get the fat cats out of Washington, when his campaign is overrun with them. Does Rick Davis mean anything to you? He was still taking money from FM til last month! And McCain says he didn't know this, yet he kept him in his campaign. So much for his transparency argument.
And now his transition team is to be headed up by one of the largest lobbyists in Washington; a lobbyist who worked for Saddam Hussein! What rich hypocrisy here. He incites fear in his voters with trumped up stories of Ayres. Yet he has a man who lobbied FOR Saddam Hussein IN THE WHITE HOUSE! In OUR white house.!
Then at last night's debate, McCain says Ayres is a washed up old terrorist whom he is no longer worried about. This AFTER we have heard nothing but AYRES nonstop for the last couple of weeks.
Why would he fraudulently stir up fear and rage amongst our people? In a word, manipulation. Because this man will stop at nothing to get what he feels he is entitled to, the POTUS. To hell with our citizens who are truly terrified because of his constant talk of someone who he now says is " a washed up terrorist". I am sure that offers them great comfort. You see Doug, it is all about him. "We the people" are simply pawns for him to use. Lieing, cheating, character asassination, are not a problem for McCain if that gets him one step closer to his goal. Talk about "blind ambition".
There is your experience argument Doug, in a nutshell. McCain does not want to serve the citizens of the United States. His experience is all wrapped around learning to use the money hungry, power hungry lobbyists. Working together will line the fat cat's pockets and enable John McCain to reach his goal.
Pretty mavericky, huh?
This is not a man who I respect at all.
We have all been given a clear choice in this election.
My choice is for Barack Obama.
I certainly saw no evidence of McCain's leadership skills during the financial crisis. His behavior then was repugnant, as he was in no way acting on behalf of the best interests of our nation with his embarrassing antics. I was particularly NOT impressed with the way he "reached across the aisle", with such disastrous results. And the man who hates "pork" and is never going to sign a bill with pork in it, signed his name to the buyout, with nary a complaint.
I am still waiting to hear him shout the names, as he has said he would, but that would mean he would have to start with himself!
nayd
· 1 year ago
This Doug guy is really stupid - why are you engaging with him? It is cruel.
Ron
· 1 year ago
Nayd,
Doug isn't too bad he is just sore because his guy is losing.
Doug
· 1 year ago
Oh well, doesn't look like anyone here has any clue of what is really happening. I thought I might actually see why some of you are voting for Obama, but I haven’t been able to see a single viable argument. Enough of my time wasted.
Good luck if he get’s elected, a lot of you are going to end up in the unemployment line!
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug with your 30 jobs in 30 years you might just be the first one to find yourself in the unemployment line, and you can thank eight years of Bush and his policies. You haven't seen a viable argument because you aren't open to anythng that doesn't fall in line with your Rightwing mentality. Go back to Faux News, Rush, Drudge, and all of the rightwingnuts and you will hear exactly what you want to hear. You can once again fantasize that all is well with Bush and Cheney and all will continue to be well if only we stay the course with McCain and Palin. That's the world you belong in.
LFC
· 1 year ago
So again, I am saying that you are implying that you have complete trust in Obama’s cabinet, by the example you’ve just outlined. Do you know who they are, and have you vetted them out?
What kind of engineer are you, Doug? Because judging from your "logic skills", it certainly isn't software.
I'm picking the guy who can pick the best team, listen to their points of view based upon years of expertise that is orders of magnitude beyond the lifespan of any single individual, and can make good decisions.
But if you'd like to talk about advisers, let's review an example. I'll pick economics. It's particularly important since John McCain admitted multiple times that he didn't understand much about the economy ... before he denied ever saying that. (YouTube's a bitch, ain't it John?)
Obama's economic advisers include Austan Goolsbee and Warren Buffet. Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, and Paul Volcker. Not a bad cast of characters.
McCain's economic advisers include Phil Gramm (the single most responsible person for the wholesale deregulation that allowed the current crisis), Donald Luskin (dubbed as the World's Stupidest Man for his long and late denials that the economy had any problems), and Kevin Hassett (co-author of Dow 36000 ... 'nuff said). These are the guys who are supposed to bring us change and smart regulation.
So when it comes to a CEO who can pick economic advisers, I'll go with Obama.
LFC
· 1 year ago
Ugh! Doug just effectively said "I know you are, but what am I?" Better trolls, please.
Ron
· 1 year ago
Well Doug it has been fun chatting with you, it is too bad you can not seem to keep it civil and stop with the insults. You claim you would like to see the company I work for, I work for a small business we have about 40 employees including a 9 man engineering dept. We design and make aerospace parts for the defense field. My boss, who is the owner is your basic "Joe the Plumber" he started this company 20 years ago with a pencil a slide rule and a thought.
He knows that Obama may cost a few more dollars in taxes for our business, but at the same point he has been supplying Health Care to all the employees and over the last 5 years it has doubled in cost and with McCain's plan it will only get worse. In the long run the overheads for insurance have far outweighed the taxes we have been paying, of course Florida and Palm Beach County taxes are a totally different story.
LFC
· 1 year ago
I will toss this one out to Doug, though, simply because he obviously needs an example of how a thinking person decides on Obama. He brings up advisers and "vetting". OK, let's look at the people selected by each candidate. I'll choose economics as the topic since a) it's big right now and b) McCain admitted several times that he didn't know much about it (though he tried to take that back ... YouTube's a bitch, ain't it John.)
Obama has Austan Goolsbee (very bright and level-headed), Michael Froman (Citigroup exec ... a bank that didn't collapse), Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, and Paul Volcker (possibly the best Fed Reserve Chairman in the past 50 years ... certainly superior to "Easy Al" Greenspan).
McCain has Phil Gramm (the single most responsible person for the deregulation that allowed the current crisis to occur), Donald Luskin (dubbed the World's Stupidest Man for his long and late pronouncements of how strong the economy was), and Kevin Hasset (co-author of "Dow 36000" ... 'nuff said).
And if you want to see "experience", look at this list of advisers that McCain selected for foreign policy. The amount of "wrong" they represent is staggering.
blmack
· 1 year ago
I think Doug's assignment is to keep people busy responding to his idiotic statements so they don't go out and vote.
lorisc
· 1 year ago
blmack, You might be right. I have already voted and am about to go out to do some volunteer work for the campaign. It did suck up my afternoon.
Does anyone know if McCain is still paying bloggers or giving them freebies? Maybe Doug is trying to earn a free Palin t shirt.
Ted
· 1 year ago
Dougie packed up his toys and ran home. Must be time for his evening Nicktoons.
Spongebob First
MrBurlesk
· 1 year ago
"Joe" the "plumber"....complete fraud; how colorful and distracting. We are going to need stuff like this to make fun of since there are so many days left before Election Day, and it will take a lot of humor to get us through the next few weeks. I can not believe that someone in the McCain campaign did not set up the interaction with Obama, particularly with the Robert Wurzelburger and Keating connection. On the other hand, this is America and Wurzelburger is entitled to join "patriot" wingnut political parties if he so chooses, and express his freedom of speech. But how ugly it is to see him abuse his rights and attempt some kind of "gotcha" on Obama -- something that boomeranged on McCain big time. I guess McCain and the Republican Party don't understand that when vetting someone you have to actually scratch beneath the surface. "Joe" and the political party he represents is finally being hoisted on its own petard. There certainly IS hope.
me
· 1 year ago
I guess this is the Hunt for Reds October.
S. Wills
· 1 year ago
Joe is opposed to social security. He said his parents are on social security and he lives with them. Will he be a loving son and support them and house them if they lose their social security? Just wondering.
Clatech
· 1 year ago
The way the liberal media went after Joe Wurzelbacher is a good indication of what average Americans have to look forward to in a Barrack Obama administration (God forbid). Access will be based on positive contributions to the Obama persona and Hollywood status!
billy
· 1 year ago
Go Doug he's right so everyone else be quiet
Doug
· 1 year ago
Xerom-- You should get your facts straight. And, I would say the exact same thing to you: It's hard to change someone’s mind if that mind is already made up. Looks like your unknowing and unintelligent mind is made up.
Wow, so it's rich to call Obama condescending, the incredibly sensitive fellow who has stated that people in PA are clinging to their religion and guns beyond any normal “sensibility” of his? I think he himself said that saying such a thing was "one of the most boneheaded things" he has done on the campaign to date. This is just one of many, many occasions that he has said and done such things, and people are rightly angry about it.
So on the facts for Obama's tax plan: How is that 95% of all Americans are going to get tax relief under his plan, when the existing Bush tax cuts expire under Obama? Truth is, after the cuts expire, he will RAISE taxes for most Americans under his plan. Therein lies one of the many, many deceptions of Obama. Same thing happened when Clinton took office: Another democrat who promises tax relief, and then jacks up your taxes. So I say to your comments that McCain's attacks have been debunked are completely untrue, which is based on the FACTS. It is actually Obama's plan that is now starting to be debunked, and rightfully so. You need to look at the FACTS!
One question I would put to all you blindly faithful Obama followers: If you had a choice to select a Doctor for your upcoming heart surgery, where one had a couple years of experience, and the other had over 25 years, who would you choose? For me, since obivously my life depends on it, I would definitely go with the Doctor with experience. Right now, our very existence in America is in jeopardy in the same way.
I know in my profession (Engineering), a person with Obama's "qualifications" would be laughed out of any interview if it were for anything but an entry level position. So how is it that people like you think that Obama, with all of his 143 days experience in the U.S Senate, is now somehow qualified to lead the most powerful country on the planet?
Just because Obama purports to be a bringer of "change" does not mean that it is good change. Imagine that Doctor, coming in to start your heart surgery, and at the outset he says: "I'm not going to use the normal procedure (backed by over 25 years of experience) of clearing your blocked artery, rather, I think I'll just plug it off, you really don't need that anyway". By voting for Obama, you literally are taking the same risk with our entire COUNTRY.
Bottom line is that McCain has the experience to know what is useful/beneficial change, and what is not. Obama DOES NOT!
PLEASE PEOPLE: Look at the substance of the candidates, and you will see that McCain is the best choice!
Ron
· 1 year ago
Doug,
I respect your commitment to your candidate and I too am an engineer (mechanical work in aerospace). People may be going on blind faith voting for Obama but let's be serious there is no other job in the world like president of the United States and anyone you elected for a first term is going to somewhat be on blind faith. He may have "experience" as you call it but his experience got us into a war that as General Petraeus states is not winable. He also helped deregulate Wall Street enough to help put us in this problem.
So lets be honest Experience is not always a great thing, especially when half of you arguement is a fresh face as VP.
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug said:
I know in my profession (Engineering), a person with Obama's "qualifications" would be laughed out of any interview if it were for anything but an entry level position. So how is it that people like you think that Obama, with all of his 143 days experience in the U.S Senate, is now somehow qualified to lead the most powerful country on the planet?
Doug, just how do you feel about Sarah Palin? Would she be laughed out of an interview? You do seem to forget that Obama was a state senator for eight years, the President of the Harvard Law Review, and has now been a US Senator for four years.
You talk about how you are an engineer and a person with Obama's qualification would be laughed out of an entry level position. Well, my husband is also an engineer and you know what, the project managers and project directors who handle 100 million projects aren't the people in their fifties and sixties who have been with the company for 25 years. They are often in their late 30's and early 40's. They are the brightest. So, I guess that would be the difference between where you work and the where my husband works (which, by the way, is one of the largest construction/engineering firms in the world).
I want a president who is smart enought to figure out that while he knows a lot he doesn't know everything. With Bush/McCain/Palin you have someone who doesn't know everything, but think they does. With Obama/Biden you have two men who know a whole lot but know that they don't know everything and will surround themselves by what will be one of the best Presidential Cabinets of all times.
Pelu Maad
· 1 year ago
Open heart surgery performed by someone who graduated 5 from the bottom of his class?...Good luck with that, dude....
Doug
· 1 year ago
Hey electicbrotha-- Wow, what an amazingly insightful response. Too bad it's all a bunch of BS.
Truth is, I don't approve of what has happened to our country in the last 8 years, but I don't think Obama has what it takes to lead us out of it. So aside from bashing the Bush admin, what else can you say that actually promotes Obama? If you had anything useful to put into the argument here, it would be why you think Obama would be great for all of us, not why Bush is a loser.
Well?
Doug
· 1 year ago
So Minik-- Let me ask this: If I were in a meeting with you at work, and you started to say something that you obviously thought was important, and then I started laughing like I thought you were really stupid, what would your reaction be? I think you can see that Obama's responses were completely out of line, condescending, and inappropriate.
Doug
· 1 year ago
Ron-- First off, are you the one who wrote the article here? Just curious since whomever did, they started with the name calling (Lame, Loon, etc..). I guess I just perpetuated it; my bad.
On experience, you of all people should know that experience is 80% of what you look for in an Engineer. Glad instead to hear that you would hire someone with a couple of years to run your department. What was the company you said you're working for, and sitting here in the middle of the day and blogging? And yes, I agree that Palin is not the most experienced VP candidate here, that is the big negative of her for me.
And wow, where did you get the idea that the war is not winnable? Have you been watching the news at all, or has Obama blinded you from world affairs? Last I heard there is an agreement about to be signed to pull us out in victory by 2011:
Well, your arguments are running thin Ron. Good thing I am at least bringing some new and accurate info to your incredibly narrow minded readership.
Ron
· 1 year ago
Doug,
Your candidates hero General Patraeus claims he would never use the word victory. look here
I do currently run an engineering dept and experience is very nice but at the same time you run into preconditioned limits with the way people think. Alot of older engineers (I am one of them) are stuck in their ways and have trouble seeing that change is happening and there are better ways to do things. I have people come in for jobs that claim programs like Pro-E or AutoCad are horrible tools and they rather do things free hand. The world has changed and if people can't keep up it will run them over and some people claim McCain falls into this category.
Unlike most people on this site I am not a die-hard Democrat, I voted for Charlie Crist for governor here and I really hate to admit this now but I did vote for Bush in 2000. By the way sorry I didn't write the article.
Doug
· 1 year ago
Man are you people idiots.
1.) Yes, his taxes will go up under Obama's plan. And on top of that, the additional taxes will not allow the guy to expand his business as he might otherwise have.
2.) Who cares if the guy is a Republican? If Obama had such a compelling argument about his incredibly liberal tax plan, don't you think he would have thought it was great? Hmm, well maybe Obama's plan is NOT going to help Joe the Plumber.
3.) And, on the other topic of eye rolls, Obama's condescending laughs at some of McCain's totally correct comments were disgusting. What a complete arrogant ahole.
So, if there's anyone out there on this website that has any intelligence at all, understand the FACTS, and vote for McCain!!!!
Ron
· 1 year ago
Doug,
There are many people on this site that would love to have an open discussion with you as long as you can stop with the name calling. The fact is if "Joe " is buying a business that has a revenue of less then 250k his taxes are going down. Why is that so hard to believe, it is in print for the world to see. I personally dont care much about the stories about eyes rolling and the condescending laughs, however i have to say Nate Silver's story at 538 about the Tongue Jut's of McCain being an obvious tell when he was either lying or saying something uncomfortable was a great story and pretty much spot on.
eclecticbrotha
· 1 year ago
Hello Doug, its been a while since a McCain troll dared venture into this blog.
Feeling a little confident after the old lizard's performance last night, eh? Well, give it 24 hours. Every tactic, attack line and campaign theme McCain rolls out has a shelf life of 48 hours at best. He played the "Joe the Plumber" gambit last night and its failing miserably. He threw every smear line at Obama in the debate and Barack casually brushed them all aside. No one cares about your candidate. No one wants him. He - like everyone who supports him - is desperate, flailing, frustrated, angry and terrified of the impending disaster awaiting your party. Thank George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Karl Rove and everyone else who brought us the last 8 years. John McCain went all in supporting these guys and rolled snake eyes. Face up to it, Doug: after shamelessly gutting this nation the Republicans are reaping what they've sown and none of your insults will distract from that. The American people just aren't that into you, son. Buh-bye.
minik
· 1 year ago
LOL. Doug, your candidate (McCain) is going to lose the election. Your tears are my sweet sustenance.
lorisc
· 1 year ago
Doug, Joe doesn't make $250,000 but he is concerned that he might one day. So, his taxes won't go up.
I don't care if they guy is a Republican. But he was never an undecided voter. He is pro McCain and may have even voted for Ron Paul in the primaries.
Obama smiles and shakes his head when McCain lies. McCain huffs and puffs with eyes bulging and blinking as he tries to control his anger.
You are just as condescending as your candidate. You think you have the FACTS? You think you are the intelligent one? Where do you get your facts? Fox News, Rush, the Drudge Report?
BTW, I would imagine that any Obama supporter who blogs on this site would no trouble letting you know the real facts and why they are voting for Obama. You need to decide whether we are idiots, or liberal elitists who graduated from liberal schools. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
msskwesq
· 1 year ago
Well, no that is incorrect. It is hard to be certain what exactly this man is talking about as he said he was "thinking about buying a plumbing business" and it made about "$250,000". Does that mean the purchase price is $250K? His estimated gross profits? Seems too vague. It all really depends on how the company is set up: a Corporation, an S Corporation, a partnership, a sole proprietorship, an LLC, etc. Depending on the form of the company, the net profits may be passed on to his personal 1040 or if a Corp, then pay Corp taxes. All expenses, including depreciation, amortization, vehicles, equipment, staff salaries, payroll taxes, supplies, rent, utilities, licenses, training, uniforms,etc are deducted from the Gross profits to get to NET profits. Taxes are paid on net profits. Businesses like his most often have a very low Net Profit. Chances are he will pay far less under Obama. Clearly he is not much of a business man if he has the ideas about taxes and social security that he expresses.
Sean
· 1 year ago
1. No, his taxes won't go up. How many times does this have to hammered out. If you make less that $250,000 you get a tax cut. A business would have to have a NET PROFIT of $250,001 before its tax rate would go from 36% to 39%. That is a 3% increase on every dollar over 250,000. Now if the business creates 1 new job, it gets a $3,000 tax break. Any business making a net profit of 250k would be doing awesome.
2. This guy was already decided... this guy is a part of 'The New Fear of Socialism' crowd that fails to see that Republicans do more to push government into our lives than Democratic leaders.
3. Oh please *rolls eyes*
Candace Sacchetti
· 1 year ago
Anyone with real intelligence will know that John McCain is not good for this country. Mr. Obama has explained that a person will be taxed if they make over $250,000 and not on any earnings under that amount. Joe the plumber was a plant, which goes with the republican play book. It appears that the people with intelligence know that McCain will do nothing to help the middle class with jobs, homes, health care etc. Anyone voting for McCain has not paid attention to the destruction of the past eight years
Ron
· 1 year ago
I think McCain's problem is he views the Middle class different then most people do. Remember during the debate he joked saying Joe your rich and didnt even know it. Well at this point we were all under the impression that Joe would be making 250-280k just like he said. Well where I come from 250-280k per year is at least considered pretty damn wealthy if not rich.
brantl
· 1 year ago
Can't read or think, Doug? That's too bad. Who typed this for you? Most of us, can. You're clueless, Doug. This chucklehead doesn't even have a plumber's license. He can't operate the business. And when McCain continues to lie about me, I'd laugh, too, rather than reach across the table and smack the lying little shit. Especially after this stuff has been disproved again and again and again. Have a nice day in that little fantasy world of yours, Doug.
All Comments
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/10...
Oh, and he hates Social Security, just like John McCain! This is hilarious.
What a looser.
McCain "croak!": http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/A_m...
Bill The Cat "Ack!": http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Cats/Bill-The...
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/unde...
That's rich calling Obama arrogant. McCain did nothing but seethe, roll his eyes, and laugh off womens health. Talk about arrogant "who needs the woman vote, fuck `em".
Facts and McCain do not agree. His lies and distortions about Obama's tax plan have already been debunked by a number of sources. Plus, Joe will get tax credits for new hires, plus credits for big-pool health insurance participation.
The better the economy, the more money people have, the more people will be able to afford Joe's services. Opening his business under a McCain/Bush admin will insure failure.
Pay Tax % Amount paid in taxes Weekly income
$300k 36% $108k $3692.30
$300k 39% $117k $3519.23
Joe would be taking home $173.07 less each week. For most Americans that is a lot of money but I think Joe would be alright and able to live on his $3519 a week income.
I heard it reported that the average plumber makes $45,000 a year.
They're trying to pull a fast one on us ---for a change.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/02217/845
I do not think this blog entry proves anything, but it certainly is thought provoking.
Joe the Plumber related to Charles Keating?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/02217/845
That would be golden. This is where the mainstream press is supposed to get involved and get some answers, as the average "Joe" could never research matters like this. Don't hold your breath, though.
Could be a dead end story. But if it is true...........
We can't let up on McCain -- keep hammering away about the economy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlrf32JI708
http://www.uspeacegovernment.org/
Yes indeedy.... a head-scratcher. I think your suppositions may be correct.
Obama, on the other hand, seemed to start his point, move through it, and finish. He would then pick up the next point.
So is it me, or did others notice that McCain was, at times, all over the place?
I thought the same thing. He was all over the place. I guess that's what happens when you are really pissed and can't think straight.
"And, on the other topic of eye rolls, Obama's condescending laughs at some of McCain's totally correct comments were disgusting. What a complete arrogant ahole."
My take away from the laughs were that they were Obama's way of dealing with the uncontrolled hostility that John was tossing at him.
His laugh basically says "Man, i can't believe that this guy is totally incapable of simply maturely debating with me without having a conniption fit."
He was laughing at McCains inability to control his anger in such an inappropriate situation.
I would pick the one with a few years of experience and a steady hand who would use the scalpel and not the hatchet.
I would NOT want a surgeon with more experience but a shaky hand, a quick temper, and someone who mocks the "health" of a woman.
(Edit to add - That's assuming I had health insurance that would cover the surgery.)
And maybe you can answer this question, please?
Does someone earning a quarter of a million dollars represent the average working middle class voter? You know the joe six pack or joe the plumber, who, incidentally, doesn't even have a plumber's license.
Palin ain't that hot to start with And when she speaks, the stupid just hurts so badly that the small amount of physical attractiveness is overwhelmed.
Not sure what you mean about someone making $250K as being middle class, but yes I think the bulk of small businesses have greater income than that, and so would definitely be hurt by Obama's increased taxes.
And as far as you becoming a surgeon, I think you'd have to graduate a tad higher than 5th from the bottom of 900.
And about you making a "killing in doing open heart surgery" -- that's EXACTLY why I wouldn't pick the 'experienced' hot tempered not very bright one, and WOULD take my chances on the one who knows his stuff, graduated on top with honors and again, with the steady hand that knows the difference between a scalpel and a hatchet.
I can see why you would support McCain. You make light of a very serious profession such as a surgeon as well as the office of the presidency.
Experience is overrated if it's bad experience.
Doug, why don't you bring on the facts. I haven't seen anything but name calling here. You've said nothing that makes me think you know much about why you support McCain. If it's the experience argument then explain how you can excuse McCain for choosing a completely inexperienced running mate. Don't give me the executive experience argument. It's Alaska a state of 700,000 and Wasilla is a town smaller than the very little town I live in. Don't tell me that she has close foreign relations with Russia. I've seen her try to answer the questions. She can't. She knows Alaska politics but has never engaged in learning much about the rest of the country (at least not until she began cramming in late August).
As far as why I would never vote for McCain. The Republican Party's platform and the platform John McCain is running on doesn't coincide with anything I believe in.
BTW, tell me if you are the master of all knowlege did you support the war in Iraq? Did you believe that Saddam was tied to al Queda? Did you believe there were WMD's? Just wondering. Somehow I think you supported this war from the very beginning instead of listening to the many voices of opposition. They were out there and a lot of people heard them and made the right judgment.
Are you trying to become the next Sarah Palin? Because internet med school to prepare for surgery is kind of like going to five schools in six years to become a journalist. I look at McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden as teams. McCain cheapened the experience argument when he chose Palin who is clueless and isn't at all prepared to be VP much less President. So, get over the experience argument. Obama has had a 20 month interview with the American people and he has shown that he knows what he is talking about. What exactly do we know about Palin who could be president should something happen to McCain? She violated her state's ethics laws (I've had about enough of secrecy, obstructionism, to last me a lifetime. Palin makes a complete fool of herself during interviews so she blames it on the media and stops giving them
As long as you are using your interview for a job analogy, can you imagine how far someone would get if during an interview they told the HR Dept. that they wouldn't be answering their questions? They would be talking about what they wanted to since it was their interview. I don't think they'd be asked back for a second interviewThat's what happened during the debate. Palin got her talking points out, but rarely answered the questions.
Have you ever voted for President Bush?
http://webofdeception.com/joetheplumber.html
Doug, that's $250K in profits, not income (i.e. revenue). Capital expenditures used to expand the business would be counted as expenses against income, thus reducing profits. Salaries, benefits, rent, office supplies, etc. also count as expenses. So you could easily have a business with $20 million in income, but $100K in profits.
As Obama said, and McCain has not refuted, 98% of small business have profits of less than $250K per year.
I'm a software engineer, and I see several problems with the above statements.
First, in engineering, it's not simply amount of experience but rather it's the right type of experience. Think of the infamous baggage handling system fiasco at Stapleton Airport. The designer of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge probably had oodles of experience, but a bridge that crashed in a matter of months due to poor design. That's not the kind of experience most people would look for in a new hire. Think McCain on a number of foreign policy and deregulatory issues. Lincoln Savings crashed. Iraq crashed. Afghanistan crashed. The derivatives market crashed. The real estate market crashed. His "experience" has turned out to be pretty bad.
Second, you just conflated being an experienced engineer with being able to run a department. That tells me you know absolutely nothing about management. My current boss was a software engineer for a short period of time. He was OK at it. He moved to management early and was fantastic from the get-go because he was organized, detail oriented, could prioritize, could think ahead, and thought about the ramifications of his decisions. Obama has these same qualities. McCain does not. And Palin, who supposedly has "executive experience" definitely does not have these traits.
And wow, where did you get the idea that the war is not winnable? Have you been watching the news at all, or has Obama blinded you from world affairs? Last I heard there is an agreement about to be signed to pull us out in victory by 2011:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081016/us_nm/us_ir...
Well, your arguments are running thin Ron. Good thing I am at least bringing some new and accurate info to your incredibly narrow minded readership.
One last thing to Doug and then I am moving on. It's not really worth the time to say much more since he believes somehow he knows the facts, but her I go.
The US/Iraqi Withdrawl Plan mirrors Obama's plan.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/america...
I think you missed something a bit blatant in your statement here:
“Well, my husband is also an engineer and you know what, the project managers and project directors who handle 100 million projects aren't the people in their fifties and sixties who have been with the company for 25 years. They are often in their late 30's and early 40's. They are the brightest. So, I guess that would be the difference between where you work and the where my husband works (which, by the way, is one of the largest construction/engineering firms in the world).”
No lori, I have over 30 years of experience in Engineering design (I have worked at more than 30 of the most respected companies in my profession over the years), and I can count on one hand how many times someone with 2 years of experience was promoted over someone with 25 years, regardless of age. Actually, I can think of a couple those that worked out badly. Age is not the issue here. It is just simply a fact that in aggregate, someone with more experience in their particular profession will have a far greater ability to resolve problems and provide leadership when it is needed most. Arguing that fact is laughable.
So are you trying to become the next Barack Obama? Sounds like it…
Well hey, don't worry about gaining any experience before you run for office, you're ready to go under your current philosophy!
Obama doesn't have two years of experience and you know it. It sounds more like you are the one who thinks you could be president or a surgeon since you have 30 years of experience. Have you ever been CEO of any of these companies?
If you are going to go back to the experience issue how come you won't address Sarah Palin's complete lack of experience. You start talking about two years of experience and that is exactly what she has two years (unless you are counting six years as mayor of tiny Wasilla which she left $23 million in debt. Why do you keep avoiding Palin? If McCain is elected she could be president at any moment. She hasn't done a press release. She hasn't done the Sunday morning talk shows. She has done three interviews and blew two of them.
This is why people like you make me crazy. You believe you are thinking rationally and logically when you talk about experience, but you won't take that same argument and look at McCain's running mate. You can't have it both ways, Doug. You can't talk about Obama's experience (who has answered questions in close to 30 debates, done countless interviews, press releases, etc) and disqualify his years in the state senate at the same time you refuse to talk about Palin's experience. If you are going after Obama's experience then defend Palin's experience. You won't because you can't.
I am pretty sure you voted for Bush twice and are probably still a part of the 25% of the people who support him. What Obama did was exercise the judgment early on and speak out against a war that should never have been fought. He saw through the Bush/Cheney lies. McCain didn't. He couldn't wait to get to Iraq. Just a few months after 9-1-1 he was "onto Baghdad". He was wrong then, and you like McCain seem to think this war started in 2007 rather than 2003. Somehow you and McCain have made the Surge the pivotal decision in this war. The pivotal decision was the decision to go there in the first place. This was a pre-emptive war where there was no threat to us.
How do you explain that the withdrawl plan mirrors the Obama's plan? It includes timetables and an end date of 2011. Isn't McCain against that? Wouldn't that be telling our enemies when we are leaving? Isn't that his argument against timetables?
“On experience, you of all people should know that experience is 80% of what you look for in an Engineer. Glad instead to hear that you would hire someone with a couple of years to run your department. What was the company you said you're working for, and sitting here in the middle of the day and blogging? And yes, I agree that Palin is not the most experienced VP candidate here, that is the big negative of her for me.”
I did address Palin; I do not really think she has enough experience to be VP. But I believe much more strongly that Obama TRULY does not have the experience to be President. In fact, I think it is totally arguable that Palin is far more experienced in making executive decisions than Obama, and this has been proven by their experience and records.
Anything else you can't support?
What is the job of a VP? To break a tie in the Senate and to step up to become president if something happens to the president. So if Palin doesn't have enough experience to VP she doesn't have enough experience to be President. You might think it is totally arguable that Palin is far more experienced in making executive decision than Obama, but if that is your barometer then she should be on the top of the ticket since McCain has no executive experience either. Palin's record, PLEASE! That executive experience in Waslilla left a town of 7000 which had no debt with a debt of $23 million. She has been the govenor of a very small state for two years. Her own legislature just found her guilty of an ethics violation. That's not a record I would be that proud of.
Someone should ask McCain if he now favors the complete elimination of Social Security. There are a lot of old folks in Florida who need to know.
Mr. Wurzelbacher is registered to vote in Lucas County under the name Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher.
“We have his named spelled W-O, instead of W-U,” Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said in a telephone interview. “Handwriting is sometimes hard to read. He has never corrected it in his registration card.”
Here's a flip question: With all the new voter fraud regulations in Ohio, isn't it likely that the mis-spelling of his name and the different first name would cause him to be flagged and forced to cast a provisional vote until he could prove himself innocent of trying to commit voter fraud?
30 years and 30 different companies you must be one hell of an engineer. Two things I look for when hiring, stability and avoid contract engineers you are either missing the first or are the second.
I totally missed the 30 years experience at 30 different companies. Good catch.
Who exactly are the enemies in this 'war' besides those that we ourselves created by illegally invading a sovereign nation, shocking and awing tens of millions of innocent civilians and causing the death and displacement of countless innocent civilians, destroying whatever infrastructure they might have had - all under the guise of WMD and liberating them?
Please define the enemy. Then maybe we can talk about *victory".
No, I'm voting for Obama because he has shown intelligence and thoughtfulness in dealing with a wider variety of topics than any one individual could have in-depth experience with. Do you think the President knows more about he military than the generals, more about the economy than economists, more about drugs than the head of the FDA, more about foreign policy than the entire set of U.S. ambassadors, more about space than NASA, and and and and? If so, you're an idiot.
As I’ve said above, I’ve seen MANY Engineering departments and managers over the years, and not once did I see a manager who had little or no experience lead a team with competent guidance.
You're stuck at departmental level. I have worked for several successful companies started by people who don't have decades of experience. My current company was started by somebody who had never been a CEO has never written a line of code, yet by hiring the right people and having other skills (sales and market place analysis), he has created a successful company that is in the black. That's the mark of a successful CEO.
Just curious, how long have each of you been Engineers?
30 years. I landed my first programming job at age 17.
What do you think if your boss pulled in a guy with a couple years experience to replace you?
I don't understand the premise. I'm not a CEO. If my CEO was replaced by a guy who was a really good programmer with 30 years experience, but who had never managed anything above a team or small department, I'd start looking for another job before the company crashed and burned.
My boss is younger than me and he had less experience in both time and breadth than I did, but he is a better manager than I could ever be. I've seen very sharp and experienced engineers attempt to move into the management track and fail miserably. You conflate management skills with engineering skills. We're not voting for an engineer, or a team leader. We're voting for a CEO.
And to be blunt, McCain is not a skilled engineer, not a skilled manager, and sure as hell isn't qualified to be CEO.
Yes, I understand the job of VP. But how in the world does Obama know what the h**l to do as President? I think you can see what I’m saying here is that the McCain/Palin team is far more experienced and capable in total than Obama/Biden, plain and simple. It’s almost impossible to argure that (although I’m sure you’ll try in some completely incorrect way, based on false information).
On your other comment:
“How do you explain that the withdrawl plan mirrors the Obama's plan? It includes timetables and an end date of 2011. Isn't McCain against that? Wouldn't that be telling our enemies when we are leaving? Isn't that his argument against timetables?”
Everyone who has followed this war knows that we could not establish a time of leaving, until the agreement to support that withdrawal was in place. Guess what? If you read the ariticle I sent, you would know that we now have an agreement about to be signed! Hmm, funny how that works.
Any other re-directs you want to throw out there?
It's not a redirect. I like rational and logical thinking and you don't have any. You question Obama's experience but somehow think Palin is fine (VP to a 72 year old four time cancer survivor who is the oldest pres nominee ever). So, the experience of McCain's VP does matter. Doug were you impressed with Palin's ability to show the extent of her knowledge when interviewed by Gibson and Couric? If you were, you weren't paying attention. Much of the country and the world was just plain alarmed by her responses and lack of knowledge. In fact, it probably contributed to McCain's crash in the polls.
How is my information incorrect and your correct? Just wondering. It's not as if you back it up with anything but your own opinion. Like I said I don't find you to be all that logical or rational. Just someone with an opinion who thinks he's right.
Have you ever been to Obama's website? Maybe you could start there to find out exactly wehre he stands on the issues. Maybe then you'll be a little more comfortable with what he will do as president. Try educating yourself. I am so sick of the line that we just don't know what Obama is about. If you don't know you haven't been listening. But, it's looking highly probably that we will be finding out soon. President Obama is looking pretty likely.
BTW, the link to your Yahoo article has expired. So, it wasn't possible to read it. Perhaps you'd like to find another article from another respected news source (no Fox News please). Did you read the article I sent you? Probably not. You never did answer me about whether you think the war started in 2007 or 2003. You are all about the surge but not about the bad judgment and lies that got us in the war to begin with. A war McCain couldn't wait to fight. Surge. Surge. Surge. It's the GOP mantra along with Drill Baby Drill.
Well, it's time to go. I want to make a donation before I go to a Get Out the Vote meeting.
LFC:
“You're stuck at departmental level. I have worked for several successful companies started by people who don't have decades of experience. My current company was started by somebody who had never been a CEO has never written a line of code, yet by hiring the right people and having other skills (sales and market place analysis), he has created a successful company that is in the black. That's the mark of a successful CEO.”
No, I’m not. I’ve been in at the beginning of no less than 5 startup companies, including one of my own. I know what it takes to make a successful company. So again, I am saying that you are implying that you have complete trust in Obama’s cabinet, by the example you’ve just outlined. Do you know who they are, and have you vetted them out?
Well, looks like if people like you have their way, we’ll all need to find our local unemployment office ASAP.
This is for you Doug,
I want a president who is intelligent, sane, and a man of good character. I want someone who listens well, to not just the words spoken, but the ideas behind those words. Someone who can think clearly in both a conversation, and a crisis. I want someone who can keep their "cool" in negotiations with others in the US Government, as well as those in foreign governments.
These character traits are all based upon mutual respect of others, and are learned as part of your upbringing. These qualities have nothing to do with job experience.
Last night during the debate, I saw an angry, reactive, aggressive presidential candidate. Senator McCain did not listen, continually interupted, repeatedly lied about his Obama, and seemed to particularly enjoy talking down to his peer.
He also made faces throughout the debate, rollled his eyes, and huffed and puffed throughout some of Senator Obama's answers. This type of behaviour reminded me of my teens when visibly annoyed, and was in no way presidential.
You can and apparently will continue to argue for McCain's 26 years of experience. You see that as a plus, I see this as a huge negative, as he has been a member of the Washington establishment, that he apparently despises, for over 2 decades. Yet he tells us that change will be coming to Washington, once he is elected.
I ask you Doug, WHY HASN'T he changed Washington before now?
He has been there 26 years and it has taken him this long to realize that there are problems?
Do you have any evidence of any bills he has authored in the last year or two that he is working on currently? Or are we supposed to wait until we elect him to see if he has any actual workable ideas that his fellow congressmen and women will support?
I simply see no evidence Doug. Senator McCain did not even vote AT ALL between April and the vote on the bailout.
And when was it that he came to the realization that Washington is run by the good old boys, greed and lobbyists?
He wants me to believe that he will get the fat cats out of Washington, when his campaign is overrun with them. Does Rick Davis mean anything to you? He was still taking money from FM til last month! And McCain says he didn't know this, yet he kept him in his campaign. So much for his transparency argument.
And now his transition team is to be headed up by one of the largest lobbyists in Washington; a lobbyist who worked for Saddam Hussein! What rich hypocrisy here. He incites fear in his voters with trumped up stories of Ayres. Yet he has a man who lobbied FOR Saddam Hussein IN THE WHITE HOUSE! In OUR white house.!
Then at last night's debate, McCain says Ayres is a washed up old terrorist whom he is no longer worried about. This AFTER we have heard nothing but AYRES nonstop for the last couple of weeks.
Why would he fraudulently stir up fear and rage amongst our people? In a word, manipulation. Because this man will stop at nothing to get what he feels he is entitled to, the POTUS. To hell with our citizens who are truly terrified because of his constant talk of someone who he now says is " a washed up terrorist". I am sure that offers them great comfort. You see Doug, it is all about him. "We the people" are simply pawns for him to use. Lieing, cheating, character asassination, are not a problem for McCain if that gets him one step closer to his goal. Talk about "blind ambition".
There is your experience argument Doug, in a nutshell. McCain does not want to serve the citizens of the United States. His experience is all wrapped around learning to use the money hungry, power hungry lobbyists. Working together will line the fat cat's pockets and enable John McCain to reach his goal.
Pretty mavericky, huh?
This is not a man who I respect at all.
We have all been given a clear choice in this election.
My choice is for Barack Obama.
I certainly saw no evidence of McCain's leadership skills during the financial crisis. His behavior then was repugnant, as he was in no way acting on behalf of the best interests of our nation with his embarrassing antics. I was particularly NOT impressed with the way he "reached across the aisle", with such disastrous results. And the man who hates "pork" and is never going to sign a bill with pork in it, signed his name to the buyout, with nary a complaint.
I am still waiting to hear him shout the names, as he has said he would, but that would mean he would have to start with himself!
Doug isn't too bad he is just sore because his guy is losing.
Good luck if he get’s elected, a lot of you are going to end up in the unemployment line!
What kind of engineer are you, Doug? Because judging from your "logic skills", it certainly isn't software.
I'm picking the guy who can pick the best team, listen to their points of view based upon years of expertise that is orders of magnitude beyond the lifespan of any single individual, and can make good decisions.
But if you'd like to talk about advisers, let's review an example. I'll pick economics. It's particularly important since John McCain admitted multiple times that he didn't understand much about the economy ... before he denied ever saying that. (YouTube's a bitch, ain't it John?)
Obama's economic advisers include Austan Goolsbee and Warren Buffet. Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, and Paul Volcker. Not a bad cast of characters.
McCain's economic advisers include Phil Gramm (the single most responsible person for the wholesale deregulation that allowed the current crisis), Donald Luskin (dubbed as the World's Stupidest Man for his long and late denials that the economy had any problems), and Kevin Hassett (co-author of Dow 36000 ... 'nuff said). These are the guys who are supposed to bring us change and smart regulation.
So when it comes to a CEO who can pick economic advisers, I'll go with Obama.
He knows that Obama may cost a few more dollars in taxes for our business, but at the same point he has been supplying Health Care to all the employees and over the last 5 years it has doubled in cost and with McCain's plan it will only get worse. In the long run the overheads for insurance have far outweighed the taxes we have been paying, of course Florida and Palm Beach County taxes are a totally different story.
Obama has Austan Goolsbee (very bright and level-headed), Michael Froman (Citigroup exec ... a bank that didn't collapse), Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, and Paul Volcker (possibly the best Fed Reserve Chairman in the past 50 years ... certainly superior to "Easy Al" Greenspan).
McCain has Phil Gramm (the single most responsible person for the deregulation that allowed the current crisis to occur), Donald Luskin (dubbed the World's Stupidest Man for his long and late pronouncements of how strong the economy was), and Kevin Hasset (co-author of "Dow 36000" ... 'nuff said).
And if you want to see "experience", look at this list of advisers that McCain selected for foreign policy. The amount of "wrong" they represent is staggering.
You might be right. I have already voted and am about to go out to do some volunteer work for the campaign. It did suck up my afternoon.
Does anyone know if McCain is still paying bloggers or giving them freebies? Maybe Doug is trying to earn a free Palin t shirt.
Spongebob First
Wow, so it's rich to call Obama condescending, the incredibly sensitive fellow who has stated that people in PA are clinging to their religion and guns beyond any normal “sensibility” of his? I think he himself said that saying such a thing was "one of the most boneheaded things" he has done on the campaign to date. This is just one of many, many occasions that he has said and done such things, and people are rightly angry about it.
So on the facts for Obama's tax plan: How is that 95% of all Americans are going to get tax relief under his plan, when the existing Bush tax cuts expire under Obama? Truth is, after the cuts expire, he will RAISE taxes for most Americans under his plan. Therein lies one of the many, many deceptions of Obama. Same thing happened when Clinton took office: Another democrat who promises tax relief, and then jacks up your taxes. So I say to your comments that McCain's attacks have been debunked are completely untrue, which is based on the FACTS. It is actually Obama's plan that is now starting to be debunked, and rightfully so. You need to look at the FACTS!
One question I would put to all you blindly faithful Obama followers: If you had a choice to select a Doctor for your upcoming heart surgery, where one had a couple years of experience, and the other had over 25 years, who would you choose? For me, since obivously my life depends on it, I would definitely go with the Doctor with experience. Right now, our very existence in America is in jeopardy in the same way.
I know in my profession (Engineering), a person with Obama's "qualifications" would be laughed out of any interview if it were for anything but an entry level position. So how is it that people like you think that Obama, with all of his 143 days experience in the U.S Senate, is now somehow qualified to lead the most powerful country on the planet?
Just because Obama purports to be a bringer of "change" does not mean that it is good change. Imagine that Doctor, coming in to start your heart surgery, and at the outset he says: "I'm not going to use the normal procedure (backed by over 25 years of experience) of clearing your blocked artery, rather, I think I'll just plug it off, you really don't need that anyway". By voting for Obama, you literally are taking the same risk with our entire COUNTRY.
Bottom line is that McCain has the experience to know what is useful/beneficial change, and what is not. Obama DOES NOT!
PLEASE PEOPLE: Look at the substance of the candidates, and you will see that McCain is the best choice!
I respect your commitment to your candidate and I too am an engineer (mechanical work in aerospace). People may be going on blind faith voting for Obama but let's be serious there is no other job in the world like president of the United States and anyone you elected for a first term is going to somewhat be on blind faith. He may have "experience" as you call it but his experience got us into a war that as General Petraeus states is not winable. He also helped deregulate Wall Street enough to help put us in this problem.
So lets be honest Experience is not always a great thing, especially when half of you arguement is a fresh face as VP.
I know in my profession (Engineering), a person with Obama's "qualifications" would be laughed out of any interview if it were for anything but an entry level position. So how is it that people like you think that Obama, with all of his 143 days experience in the U.S Senate, is now somehow qualified to lead the most powerful country on the planet?
Doug, just how do you feel about Sarah Palin? Would she be laughed out of an interview? You do seem to forget that Obama was a state senator for eight years, the President of the Harvard Law Review, and has now been a US Senator for four years.
You talk about how you are an engineer and a person with Obama's qualification would be laughed out of an entry level position. Well, my husband is also an engineer and you know what, the project managers and project directors who handle 100 million projects aren't the people in their fifties and sixties who have been with the company for 25 years. They are often in their late 30's and early 40's. They are the brightest. So, I guess that would be the difference between where you work and the where my husband works (which, by the way, is one of the largest construction/engineering firms in the world).
I want a president who is smart enought to figure out that while he knows a lot he doesn't know everything. With Bush/McCain/Palin you have someone who doesn't know everything, but think they does. With Obama/Biden you have two men who know a whole lot but know that they don't know everything and will surround themselves by what will be one of the best Presidential Cabinets of all times.
Truth is, I don't approve of what has happened to our country in the last 8 years, but I don't think Obama has what it takes to lead us out of it. So aside from bashing the Bush admin, what else can you say that actually promotes Obama? If you had anything useful to put into the argument here, it would be why you think Obama would be great for all of us, not why Bush is a loser.
Well?
On experience, you of all people should know that experience is 80% of what you look for in an Engineer. Glad instead to hear that you would hire someone with a couple of years to run your department. What was the company you said you're working for, and sitting here in the middle of the day and blogging? And yes, I agree that Palin is not the most experienced VP candidate here, that is the big negative of her for me.
And wow, where did you get the idea that the war is not winnable? Have you been watching the news at all, or has Obama blinded you from world affairs? Last I heard there is an agreement about to be signed to pull us out in victory by 2011:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081016/us_nm/us_ir...
Well, your arguments are running thin Ron. Good thing I am at least bringing some new and accurate info to your incredibly narrow minded readership.
Your candidates hero General Patraeus claims he would never use the word victory. look here
I do currently run an engineering dept and experience is very nice but at the same time you run into preconditioned limits with the way people think. Alot of older engineers (I am one of them) are stuck in their ways and have trouble seeing that change is happening and there are better ways to do things. I have people come in for jobs that claim programs like Pro-E or AutoCad are horrible tools and they rather do things free hand. The world has changed and if people can't keep up it will run them over and some people claim McCain falls into this category.
Unlike most people on this site I am not a die-hard Democrat, I voted for Charlie Crist for governor here and I really hate to admit this now but I did vote for Bush in 2000. By the way sorry I didn't write the article.
1.) Yes, his taxes will go up under Obama's plan. And on top of that, the additional taxes will not allow the guy to expand his business as he might otherwise have.
2.) Who cares if the guy is a Republican? If Obama had such a compelling argument about his incredibly liberal tax plan, don't you think he would have thought it was great? Hmm, well maybe Obama's plan is NOT going to help Joe the Plumber.
3.) And, on the other topic of eye rolls, Obama's condescending laughs at some of McCain's totally correct comments were disgusting. What a complete arrogant ahole.
So, if there's anyone out there on this website that has any intelligence at all, understand the FACTS, and vote for McCain!!!!
There are many people on this site that would love to have an open discussion with you as long as you can stop with the name calling. The fact is if "Joe " is buying a business that has a revenue of less then 250k his taxes are going down. Why is that so hard to believe, it is in print for the world to see. I personally dont care much about the stories about eyes rolling and the condescending laughs, however i have to say Nate Silver's story at 538 about the Tongue Jut's of McCain being an obvious tell when he was either lying or saying something uncomfortable was a great story and pretty much spot on.
Feeling a little confident after the old lizard's performance last night, eh? Well, give it 24 hours. Every tactic, attack line and campaign theme McCain rolls out has a shelf life of 48 hours at best. He played the "Joe the Plumber" gambit last night and its failing miserably. He threw every smear line at Obama in the debate and Barack casually brushed them all aside. No one cares about your candidate. No one wants him. He - like everyone who supports him - is desperate, flailing, frustrated, angry and terrified of the impending disaster awaiting your party. Thank George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Karl Rove and everyone else who brought us the last 8 years. John McCain went all in supporting these guys and rolled snake eyes. Face up to it, Doug: after shamelessly gutting this nation the Republicans are reaping what they've sown and none of your insults will distract from that. The American people just aren't that into you, son. Buh-bye.
Joe doesn't make $250,000 but he is concerned that he might one day. So, his taxes won't go up.
I don't care if they guy is a Republican. But he was never an undecided voter. He is pro McCain and may have even voted for Ron Paul in the primaries.
Obama smiles and shakes his head when McCain lies. McCain huffs and puffs with eyes bulging and blinking as he tries to control his anger.
You are just as condescending as your candidate. You think you have the FACTS? You think you are the intelligent one? Where do you get your facts? Fox News, Rush, the Drudge Report?
BTW, I would imagine that any Obama supporter who blogs on this site would no trouble letting you know the real facts and why they are voting for Obama. You need to decide whether we are idiots, or liberal elitists who graduated from liberal schools. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
2. This guy was already decided... this guy is a part of 'The New Fear of Socialism' crowd that fails to see that Republicans do more to push government into our lives than Democratic leaders.
3. Oh please *rolls eyes*